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Offline Sally  
#1 Posted : 11 January 2016 20:03:44(UTC)

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Joined: 17/10/2014(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: Oxfordshire

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With all the announced tax changes for landlords and others recently I thought would take a look and the new change I think many clients (and their accountants or agents) are worried about.

Digital Online Accounts for taxpayers with HMRC / Gov.UK

and quarterly returns that have now been mentioned.

You might say "returns" quarterly what am I talking about you thought George Osborne sold this to the public as the annual tax return being abolished, possibly?

Well some form of statement quarterly instead, is that not four returns a year instead of one?

Many clients are expressing their concern at the increased level of burden they may well now have coming their way.

My answer is that with jobs worth politicians who have never run anything useful in their lives, what do clients expect from Government? Sensible policies?

Anyway, here is the link to the HMRC Digita blog, for one so yo can see some of the updates and announcements.

Some of the posts will I think make to laugh as they seem to be on another planet. Planet "Civil Servant" lol.

Lol, not really this is, I think, going to be a very serious extra burden on both taxpayers and their accountants or advisers.

The totally laughable bit is that the Government actually titled the statement and documents so far "Making it easier: The end of the tax return".

I actually think this is a full on lie, and spin.

Making it easier?

Who for? Taxpayers?

The End of the tax return?

But then HMRC/Government want quarterly

David Gauke MP Financial Secretary to the Treasury states on page 3 of the document:

In future, people will only need check their tax information online to know how much they owe. Millions of people will no longer
have to complete a tax return at all — while those with more complex tax affairs will be able to use their account to declare income and pay tax in year.

Look he is an MP and "truth" and MPs well history (expenses as one of many examples!) say it all really.

I love the way the document it titled "Making it easier the end of the tax return" it makes me laugh not because it is funny but because it is totally amazing that Mr Gauke and the other Civil Servants really think those reading documents or listing to statements are that stupid not to see what they say as pure spin!

If this was an advert I think there would be clear ground for reporting it the Advertising Standards Authority as totally untrue and blatantly misleading.

Most tax returns are already filed online anyway and a lot of admin is already done online too.

Most tax is also already paid online (certainly all or 99% the clients I deal with)

So from that point of view from the taxpayers point of view there is not much new.

The other thing that makes me laugh is just how stupid and unrealistic MP are and clearly Mr Gauke need to go towards the top of the list.

Link their business accounting software to their digital tax account

By 2020, businesses will be able to manage their taxes together as part of their day-to-day running, rather than something to be done separately. Their accounting software will be able to feed data straight into their digital tax account, so most businesses will simply log-in to check their details with no need to send an annual return.

So what is the records are not perfect, are incomplete or need adjustment later when someone with the required knowledge and training corrected the entries?

Basic data posting is not usually or often done by the higher qualified, right? or is that what Government expect. If so that is going to put costs of data entry and running live accounts up very significantly for businesses.

If HMRC were trustworthy, fair and reasonable and if the tax system in the UK was fair, reasonable and easy to understand then maybe. But neither of those two is true.

George Orwell was right "1984" Big Brother Is WATCHING... he was just 36 years out that's all.

It is a bold plan by Government but in truth a very very stupid one. Jobs Worth MPs and Civil Servants living on planet "Civil Servant"

Read and laugh in total disbelief!

Even the document is only 8 pages long and not much detail so clearly they have not really thought this through...


Offline Mike  
#2 Posted : 11 January 2016 20:21:07(UTC)

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Joined: 07/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 24
United Kingdom
Location: Bedford

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Agree totally.

Larger business already file VAT returns quarterly anyway and software (such as QuickBooks and Sage etc) are already able to file to HMRC so again nothing new there (but they only file a summary) and there is provision for making adjustments for errors later (without penalty)

The problem is that Government are making the massive massive assumption that ALL taxpayers with "a second income" say rental income can:

a) afford the extra software
b) afford the extra admin time to file it more than once a year
c) are computer literate enough to cope (or in some cases can read or write at all!)
d) can afford the computer(s)
e) can afford the broadband or internet
f) have reliable internet
g) can afford and extra help they may need
d) can be bothered (i.e. it deters business formation etc)

as just some examples if I continue thinking about it no dount I could come up with heaps more reasons that MPs are on planet MP and not living in the real world.

My point is that smaller business just won't be able to cope with the extra admin and cost.

Consequence is that it takes away the incentive to declare at all is my fear. That would certainly not help get the deficit down would it.

All the extra software and admin costs must surely be tax deductible too. Might that not also then reduce taxable profits?

Does that help get the deficit down.

Some sort of change maybe might be good but what the Government are talking about I totally agree is Jobs Worth civil servants living on a different planet coming up with.

I can see why they think it is a good idea but I don't think Government are being very realistic. That though is the definition of being a Civil Servant!

Offline TaxGuru  
#3 Posted : 11 January 2016 21:07:30(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 01/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 37
United Kingdom
Location: Berkshire

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Mike, Sally

who said anything about quarterly returns. The document published so far does not mention quarterly and as a far as I am ware no official documents have...

Likely is the guess and probably to tie in with VAT quarters for VAT registered business logically.

But with the Government having introduced RTI for weekly or monthly live returns whose to say it won't be monthly!


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